Honey thread - from TBB and bits from old LHC

[ktani]

Recap 3 of the latest Honey thread news.

Recap 1, Pg 34, post 332.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...&postcount=332

Recap 2, Pg 40, post 391.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...&postcount=391


1. A honey cinnamon treatment was reported to be very successful in lightening henndigoed hair with the first treatment. It was reported to be even more successful with a 2nd treatment, that had 1/3 less cinnamon but had the 4 to1 liquid to honey ratio, and was left on the hair for only 1 hour.

2. There are now 4 honey lightening recipes reported to be successful on hendigoed hair.

3. There have been no reports that cinnamon darkens the hair or adds red tones.

4. There have been no reports that honey darkens hair or deposits a colour of its own onto hair.

5. There have been no reports that honey lightening recipes damage hair - the opposite has been reported - that the hair's condition has improved following honey lightening treatments.

6. Cassia, mixed with orange juice into a thick paste, then mixed with undiluted honey and EVOO, has been reported to darken hair and add red tones.

7. An SMT, unmicrowaved or heated, was reported to be successful in lightening hennaed hair.

8. I put together a Vitamin C checklist, Pg 43, post 429, so that you can see the Vitamin C content of honey lightening recipe ingredients. Ingredients with a Vitamin C content are not recommended for honey lightening recipes, with the possible exception of cardamom, which has a the highest peroxide value reported for a spice and a very low Vitamin C amount per tablespoon. Here it is.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...&postcount=429


Things to watch for

For those who use it - outside of honey lightening - it is not a honey lightening recipe ingredient - castor oil may darken hair - it has been reported to do so on the net - in reports on makeupalley.com. See this thread Pg 44, post 431
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...&postcount=431

And Pg 44, post 435 - this thread
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...&postcount=435

And in a traditional recommendation - Pg 44, post 440 - also this thread.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...&postcount=440

I am waiting for tests to be done by someone who posted in this thread - who first thought that her darkened hair might be a honey result but now thinks it may be the castor oil, which makes more sense IMO.

There have been no reports of honey causing that to happen and looking more closely at her hair care routine, (her hair continued to darken without the honey rinses she was doing, but with continued castor oil in a product being used) the poster agrees that castor oil is now the most likely suspect.

[ktani]

Latest posts of significant interest, IMO.

1. Hair reported to be in better condition post honey lightening treatments, including cinnamon (on previously conventionally lightened hair, with virgin regrowth) - Pg 43, post 427.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...&postcount=427

(First reported honey lightening and honey cinnamon lightening results - Pg 17, post 167.)
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...&postcount=167

2. The 4 honey lightening recipes reported to be successful on henndigoed hair - Pg 46, post 457.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...&postcount=457

3. The 4 honey lightening recipes reported to be successful on henndigoed hair, modified, to have the 4 to 1 liquid to honey ratio - Pg 46, post 458.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...&postcount=458

4. 1st and 2nd honey cinnamon reported results on henndigoed hair - Pg 47, post 464.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...&postcount=464

5. Cassia mix, not cinnamon, reported to darken hair and add red tones - Pg 47, post 467.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...&postcount=467

Correction on the new honey lightening recipes ratio - Pg 47, post 469.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...&postcount=469

6. SMT reported to lighten hennaed hair - Pg 48, post 479.
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...&postcount=479

[boukje]

boukje

Thank you for your feedback and recipe - the SMT.

I am pleased for you that you got great results and that you like the thread.

How is the condition of your hair following the treatment?

A faster way for you to get results would be to increase the amount of liquid in your SMT so that you have 4 times the amount of liquid to honey. That includes the conditioner.

That way, you will only have to leave the treatment on your hair for 1 hour.

You're Welcome ktani

My hair is not much better after the SMT (aka honey treatment), I mean by this no real improvement and also not a bad result.

My hair is very shiny and soft, looks moisturized, but I must add that this was also the case before the SMT, since I always use a shampoo bar now for my hair.

I did an SMT without heating up a few weeks ago and found out that is was a massive difference, and got rid of so much henna that I decided to do it again.

I didn't really carefully measured the amount of honey I put in the SMT. I did about 4 tablespoons I think and a big squirt of aloe vera gell (a bit more than normal) and fewer conditioner, so the SMT get a bit more runny.

I left it on for a while because I put it in after dinner and washed it before going to bed, it wasn't a real hassle. I don't want to put too much honey in it as I have to hennaed then bleached and hennaed again streaks the front part of my hair and honey dries them out quite a bit.

My overal hair health is fine so the honey makes it nice and shiney but not dry and/or limp. Just nice. But I must add SMT makes my hair greasy much faster. I will do it again next week (weekend) and I will try to make some pictures of it.

greetings from Helen.

[ktani]

You're Welcome ktani

My hair is not much better after the SMT (aka honey treatment), I mean by this no real improvement and also not a bad result.

My hair is very shiny and soft, looks moisturized, but I must add that this was also the case before the SMT, since I always use a shampoo bar now for my hair.

I did an SMT without heating up a few weeks ago and found out that is was a massive difference, and got rid of so much henna that I decided to do it again.

I didn't really carefully measured the amount of honey I put in the SMT. I did about 4 tablespoons I think and a big squirt of aloe vera gell (a bit more than normal) and fewer conditioner, so the SMT get a bit more runny.

I left it on for a while because I put it in after dinner and washed it before going to bed, it wasn't a real hassle. I don't want to put too much honey in it as I have to hennaed then bleached and hennaed again streaks the front part of my hair and honey dries them out quite a bit.

My overal hair health is fine so the honey makes it nice and shiney but not dry and/or limp. Just nice. But I must add SMT makes my hair greasy much faster. I will do it again next week (weekend) and I will try to make some pictures of it.

greetings from Helen.

boukje

Thank you for the added detail about your recipe and the condition of your hair. I am pleased for you that your hair remained soft and moisturized after the SMT, except for certain areas.

Honey residue can cause a drying effect on the hair. That can be remedied by a weak vinegar rinse - 1 tsp of white vinegar to 24 oz of water, left on the hair for 30-60 seconds, following a honey lightening treatment and then rinsed out - or by shampooing.

I suggest, that if you are specifically doing the SMT for lightening, that you leave out the aloe gel, which does coat the hair, and as I said earlier, increase the liquid content of the recipe to the 4 to 1 liquid to honey ratio - conditioner being included as a liquid. You will not be increasing the honey - only adding more liquid.

You used more aloe than conditioner before - I am suggesting you try the same amount of honey but without the aloe and more conditioner and water - 4 times the amount of liquid than the amount honey that you use.

This will do 2 things - you will likely get less honey residue by virtue of the fact that the honey is more diluted and you will only have to leave the treatment on your hair for the 1 hour to get maximum results from it.

[boukje]

boukje

Thank you for the added detail about your recipe and the condition of your hair. I am pleased for you that your hair remained soft and moisturized after the SMT, except for certain areas.

Honey residue can cause a drying effect on the hair. That can be remedied by a weak vinegar rinse - 1 tsp of white vinegar to 24 oz of water, left on the hair for 30-60 seconds, following a honey lightening treatment and then rinsed out - or by shampooing.

I suggest, that if you are specifically doing the SMT for lightening, that you leave out the aloe gel, which does coat the hair, and as I said earlier, increase the liquid content of the recipe to the 4 to 1 liquid to honey ratio - conditioner being included as a liquid. You will not be increasing the honey - only more liquid.

You used more aloe than conditioner before - I am suggesting you try the same amount of honey but without the aloe and more conditioner and water - 4 times the amount of liquid than the amount honey that you use.

This will do 2 things - you will likely get less honey residue by virtue of the fact that the honey is more diluted and you will only have to leave the treatment on your hair for the 1 hour to get maximum results from it.

just a small question: how many times can someone do a honey treatment and in what kind of time span?

I would love to have my (sort of) 'natural' colour quite soon and I want to actively grow out my hennaed hair to virgin hair, but I do not want to damage my hair by using honey too much.

Any ideas on how often I should use honey to get the 'best' results for colour change but also keep my hair healthy?

Thank you so much!

[ktani]

boukje

Honey lightening has not been reported to cause any damage to the hair or any negative effect aside from the occassional dryness that has been reported.

You can do a honey lightening treatment as often as you wish, IMO.

However, honey lightening has only been reported to completely remove henna once from hair - in the origional Honey thread and that was a henna mix (henna with other plants) that had been done one time - it was not baq henna or layers of pure henna.

Author : Fiberaddict
Date : January 23rd, 2007 07:24 AM
Thread Title : Re: Honey

"I'll hop in here with my honey experience. Saturday I mixed up a 1:1 mix of honey (the kind in the bear ) and Mane n Tail conditioner (4 Tblspns each, for those who want to play along) and 1 tsp of SS Oil.

I slathered it in my hair, and let it set while I took a long, hot bath - maybe 45 minutes or so. I rinsed it for what seemed like forever....but it wasn't long enough, apparantly.

Once it dried, it looked limp and greasy. I decided I didn't care, and went about my normal Saturday routine. (Cleaning, cleaning, and more cleaning. And by Sunday morning you can't tell! )

Imagine my surprise when I shampoo'd and conditioned Sunday morning - all the coppery highlights from my MM Marigold Henna treatment were gone, and my hair was a nice, bright, golden honey-blonde (it's naturally a darker/ash-y honey color).

I mean, I'm happy with the gold, but I really liked the copper! I'll go back and use the MM again in 2 weeks...and next time, I'll dilute the honey even more. (Like, 3:1 instead of 1:1).

On the upside, my hair is super soft, and super shiny - so it wasn't a total bust. "
http://archive.longhaircommunity.com...&postcount=129


Author : Fiberaddict
Date : January 23rd, 2007 07:41 AM
Thread Title : Re: Honey

"Yse, the MM blend is - I think - 1/3 Henna to 2/3 cassia. I had only done 1 treatment with it, but I had nice coppery highlights from it. (I liked them, too! )

I'm thinking that I got such a big lightening effect because a) only 1 "henna" treatment (I've used straight cassia before; this was the first mix) and b) the honey mix was in my hair for....19 hours or so.

Oh - and I have super fine, thin hair - that might also contribute to the effects. "
http://archive.longhaircommunity.com...&postcount=131


I do not want you to have unrealistic expectations.

[boukje]

thank you so much ktani for your quick reply very helpfull indeed.

I don't need to completely get rid of the henna, I only want to get rid of the most of the redness, so the growing out process will be easier,

I used henna with sodium primacate in it to make it very red, I only did two SMT (unmicrowaved) and it looks a lot more 'brownish' instead of the red 'auburn' colour.

I will report some more and this subject once I did the treatment again.

[ktani]

boukje

You are most welcome.

Thank you for clarifying your intentions regarding lightening your henna.

I found what I belive to be the last Fiberaddict post on her honey lightening. Here it is.


Originally posted by Fiberaddict, January 30, 2007

"OK, I just popped back over here and saw someone post about honey and wet vs. dry application.

I applied my SMT to stick dry hair - and it took all of the MM Marigold right out. :

Now, I had only done 1 MM treatment, so it probably hadn't "stuck"...but still.

I re-did the MM Saturday, so I think I'll be avoiding honey until I get a bit more in my hair. "
http://archive.longhaircommunity.com...&postcount=221


I recommend that honey lightening treatments be applied to wet hair.

IMO, the 4 to 1 liquid to honey ratio is definitely preferable to previous recipe ratios.

Good luck - I look forward to reading your continued results.

[firebird]

After a suggestion from ktani, yesterday I tried another cassia/honey mixture, but this time without the orange juice. This was to see if the darkening from the cassia could be prevented if there was no vitamin C to inactivate the honey peroxide, therefore producing lightening with the conditioning effects of cassia. My mixture was 2 tablespoons of honey, 8 of water, 2 of cinnamon, just over 1 of EVOO and about 25g cassia, mixed and then used straight away. I left it on for nearly 2 hours. As usual, the honey and EVOO greatly helped with washing out the cassia. The condition of my hair is still good, I used a little of Burt's Bees deep conditioner over the whole length after rinsing the cassia/honey with shampoo, this worked really well as now I have none of the dryness that cassia can leave. So, here are the pictures:

Before the treatment:


After:

[ktani]

firebird

Thank you for posting your new pictures and recipe.

Your hair definitely looks lighter and not as red to me. The difference is clear - on your length and ends.

I think that these results show very well that cinnamon, added to a honey lightening recipe, does not darken the hair or add red tones.

One clarification though, on my suggestion.

In your previous cassia mix, which was not a honey lightening treatment, you mixed the cassia with orange juice to form a thick paste
and let it sit for an hour.

Then you added undiluted honey and EVOO.

The Vitamin C would have depleted the peroxide in the EVOO, and in the honey only if the honey had been diluted. Honey does not produce peroxide unless it is diluted.

I do not think that there was enough moisture in the paste to dilute the honey much if at all.

I think that the honey and the orange juice in the separate cassia treatment - had the right acidity to cause the cassia to produce red tones and darken the hair. I do not think in that case it was about Vitamin C and peroxide.

For this treatment - adding cassia to a honey lightening treatment with diluted honey - yes - added orange juice would have depleted the peroxide in both the honey and the EVOO.

With orange juice and cassia in a lightening recipe with a 4 to 1 liquid to honey dilution, the recipe acidity might not be right to cause cassia to add red tones or darken the hair.

The hair would not lighten to the same degree though, because of the lesser amount of peroxide caused by the Vitamin C in the orange juice.

I am very pleased for you that this worked and that the condition of your hair is so good.